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The Future of Evidence Based Aquatic Education

Episode 11: Lynda Keane & Haylley Pittam

Joining us from across the pond are TWO very special guests, Lynda Keane & Haylley Pittam, co-founders of the UK-based Aquatic Rehabilitation and Exercise Academy, otherwise known as A.R.E.A.

This mother-daughter duo with a combined 45+ years experience and education in aquatic fitness offer us some incredible insight on everything from injury prevention and soft-tissue therapy to pre/post natal programming and the importance of proper pelvic care.

We were thrilled to end our first season of this show with Lynda & Haylley, as they are truly dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge and evidence based aquatic education.

Season 2 of The Aquaholics Bootcamp will have a strong focus on continuing education and the role it has in building safe, effective programming using some truly state of the art equipment. We're beyond pumped to bring you those amazing conversations.

As you'll hear in the their interview, Lynda and Haylley's shared passion for all things aqua has made them the leading advanced aquatic educators covering all aspects of aquatic training. They never stop learning, training and experimenting...with some truly incredible results still to come!


Full Transcript:

Jenni Lynn: Joining us today from across the pond are two very special guests, Lynda Keane and Haylley Pittam. They are co-owners of the UK based Aquatic Rehabilitation and Exercise Academy, otherwise known as A.R.E.A. and have a combined total of over 45 years experience working in aquatic fitness.

AJ: With a degree in sports rehabilitation and injury prevention and a master's in soft tissue therapy, Lynda works mainly with orthopedic and musculoskeletal clients and has a special interest in hypermobility. Likewise, Haylley has worked in the health and fitness industry as a masseuse, personal trainer, a swim teacher and an aquatic fitness instructor with a focus on pelvic care and pre- and post- natal work.

Jenni Lynn: There's so much to talk about and we cannot wait to dive in. So Lynda, Haylley, welcome to Alcoholics Bootcamp.

Lynda: Thank you. Welcome. Welcome to you.

Haylley: Hello.

AJ: Yes, thank you guys for joining us today. Where are you both calling from?

Haylley: So we actually live half an hour away from each other. But Lynda is closer to London, and I'm more in the countryside.

AJ: And you're in the United Kingdom, of course?

Haylley: Oh, sorry. Yeah, I forgot to add that bit. Yeah, we're in the United Kingdom, near London.

AJ: Nice. In the introduction, we mentioned some of your previous experiences. But can you take us back and tell us a little bit about your backgrounds, how you found yourself becoming involved in aquatic fitness and what your education and training has been? And Lynda, why don't we start with you?

Lynda: I was going to say I think we need to, as it definitely leads into Haylley afterwards. Well, the strange thing is my first incarnation was I was a French cuisine chef.

AJ: Mmm.

Haylley: Don't get excited.

Lynda: No, that was in the past. And then I had children. And I desperately wanted them to learn to swim. I thought it is absolutely with no hesitation one of the most important things in the entire growing up of a child is for a child to learn to swim. And I thought, well, I'll become a swimming teacher because it'll be cheaper. I was a single parent, by then, and after the swimming lessons, there was an aqua aerobics class and the instructor was always late, always. So I've very flippantly said to the manager, I'm fed up with this, I said send me on the course and I'll warm them up. And then when the instructor comes in, she can take over, never ever expecting to actually teach a class. So I did the course and literally fell in love with it right from the word go. I just was desperate to teach it. And to do it. I was already bitten by the bug as soon as I left that course. And I then went on to teach and then lecture in it for sort of 20 odd years, really. And I thought, I need medical knowledge now. So that was the next stage. I went and did the degree. And that was it, then masters and now it's early, early doors of a PhD.

Jenni Lynn: Wow.

Lynda: I did get bitten by the bug really quite severely.

AJ: I love that. And Haylley, where do you fit into this picture here?

Haylley: So while she was becoming a swimming teacher and a swimming coach, I was the swimmer. And then from being the swimmer, I actually have, I'm hypermobile. So I have hypermobility and my left knee was at that time when I was a swimmer, I was a breaststroke swimmer, I didn't know that I had hypermobility. So I actually ended up getting injured a lot. And my dreams of being an Olympic swimmer wasn't ever going to happen. But I then went from being a swimmer to being the lifeguard on poolside. The swimming teacher, the assistant swimming teacher, and that then led me to being in the leisure center for pretty much most jobs apart from the general manager. You know, I would be doing receptionist, lifeguards, swimming teacher, aqua aerobics instructor. And as Lynda developed with the aqua aerobics, I would be taken to these conferences and exhibitions and seminars. And I remember being 14 standing in front of these women doing a presentation and thinking, I want to be a fitness instructor. I want to be there, I want to be presenting, I want to teach people. And I was 14 years old, with everyone else around me not knowing what the hell they wanted to do when they left school. And me going, Well, I'm going to go to college, and I'm going to go and do X, Y, and Zed. So I kind of knew from a very young age that I wanted to be in the fitness industry, which I completely, you know, thank Lynda for being my mom and dragging me to those places. But also it gave me an aim very early on of what I wanted to do.

Now, believe it or not, I went into a phase of wanting to do hydrotherapy when I was about 16/17, when I realized that I loved the water more than I loved the land. And we went to the ATRI Convention at the time. And something in one of those lectures made me kind of re-jiggle my thought process of what I wanted to do as a job. But going there was immense because it really put a lot of ideas into my head about what I wanted to do. And I realized that I still wanted to be within the medical profession. I still wanted to be in the fitness profession. And so I then went on my own journey whilst Lynda was going off and doing her own thing, I went off and did my own thing. And so I did my land instructors, my personal trainers, my GP referral. And we would then every so often regroup and I would always be referred to as you know Lynda's daughter. That I, you know, I am absolutely proud of because look how far she's come and look what she's done. It's amazing. But I also had to find my own feet, I had to find my own voice. And and so I ended up being land fitness and water fitness, but still teaching my classes, building up my classes, building up my knowledge, but we kind of knew that at some stage together is where we needed to be. And that's where we are now with A.R.E.A.

AJ: Yeah.

Jenni Lynn: Wow. So as the mother daughter combination, the duo, how has that relationship influenced your teaching and your business?

Haylley: I would say a lot. From my perspective. Because we banter of each other or with ideas. But we also, we will also be honest with each other. And if I'm going to get anyone to critique my work it's is her first because she'll be there and she'll be like, No, that doesn't work. And, and then, you know, vice versa with her sending me stuff. She's like, what do you think? Do you think this will work? Though some of the stuff she puts in nowadays is a bit over my head. I then try and catch up and yeah, we work really well together. There was a convention I remember is going to and we had to present but we were put out on the spot to present and Lynda was up front and I had to like do the work with her. And I and I can remember someone saying to me, you know you two work really well together. I had no idea what moves she was doing next. But because we're so in tune with each other, I was able to literally mimic and do the exact same moves milliseconds after she did them. And and we pulled it off. Yeah. Do you remember that one?

Lynda: I do. I do. I was also gonna say that you're always my guinea pig. You're going around and manipulated and you know, tried things out. So I always get an honest opinion and it's always spot on.

Jenni Lynn: You have a perfect model per se as well because when I see these pictures and you know, Lynda's in her moment and in her element of doing you know, the therapy in the water and then you see just Haylley relaxed and like loading the water and like so like stretchy. I know you're bendy flexi and you have that hypermobility, but it just pictures that you get. And it looks like from what we've seen online, it's just, it looks great. Everything looks like it's coming together so beautifully.

Haylley: Yeah, that technique is a beautiful technique. So yeah, it's a great one to photograph. But I think the fact that I've been the guinea pig for so long, and she goes, I've just discovered something come to the pool. And I'm like, half in my head going, Oh, my God, what now?

AJ: Well, so your your co-founders of A.R.E.A, the Aquatic Rehabilitation Exercise Academy? Why don't you talk to us a little bit about where the idea began and where you're taking it now?

Lynda: Okay, well, it's something that I've been sort of like brewing on and trying to sort of clear in my head, get definite sort of guidelines of what I wanted. But the one thing I think with being at university so much, and I also teach at the university, is that I suppose now ingrained in me is that if there isn't research to back it up, we shouldn't be using it. So I'm very much you know, if we're going to go out and educate people, it's got to come from a place of science. And it's got to come from a place of fact. The physiology of immersion, you know, that we all know, that's been sort of proven and everything. So that comes from a good place. So we all know that, we all understand it. So this is partly why I wanted everything to have the the backing behind it and the evidence of the science and everything.

So when I was Haylley's age, when I was younger, I liked working with the elites as well. I liked all the fitness side. I went and I selected at some of the football teams in the UK on aquatic fitness. I went and did that until I started getting a little bit older started going a bit more down the rehab route. And as I've got older, obviously, it's taken me a lot further down that route. So I came from an area, you know, the degree was sports rehabilitation and injury prevention. I come from a place of sport and from the elite. And now I've come into more working at the hospital with the orthopedic conditions. The hospital specializes in spinal surgeries. So I get to see a lot of people with spinal injuries. So of course, that's not really the sporting world. But I just love the fact of trying to marry the two together, because over here it's very much you know, oh, you're not a physiotherapist, we can't do that, you can't do this. But I thought, well, we've got so much knowledge on the sort of fitness side of things that don't are that and the amount of times you'll see people who've come purely down the therapy route, that actually don't understand the water. But understanding the water, understanding what happens to the human body in the water, I think then makes for very good sort of treatments as well. So I mean, that was that was where the initial sort of part of things came through. And of course, with Haylley with her youth, and her fitness and her strength, she can carry on, carrying the sort of like flag for the fitness side of things. But also, she's become such a specialist in pre and postnatal in the pelvic floor. And of course, bridges both sides. That bridges therapy, and it bridges, you know, the fitness side, because one of my sayings is you only know what a pelvic floor is when it was. You know, we're not taught in school. I mean, it's only when you've got issues, the people suddenly start saying, Well, you know, you need to look after your pelvic floor, and haven't you been doing this you know, what the hell is that? So, you know, so I think it's, it's just this marrying of everything together, which I think is so important, and it's it's how the industry I believe needs to go.

AJ: Yeah.

Lynda: And this thing with COVID...You know, I think the fitness industry absolutely sits side by side with the medical industry with this pandemic. Because people when they come out of lockdown, and we've actually had a program on telly that's been talking about, you know, what's happening with people coming out of a lockdown and lack of fitness and the comorbidities that they they got through just four months. So I think the fitness industry actually should be sitting side by side with the medical industry, because the world needs us desperately.

AJ: There's actual scientific, factually-based research behind aquatic fitness. And because your Academy highlights and shares that, I think that's so important, and I hope that, you know, you can inspire worldwide that desire to learn more and to educate and share that knowledge. Because you're absolutely right, the medical and fitness industry need to merge better and work together. And not just for rehabilitation because of post injury or you know, post surgery, but prior to as well as a prevention, as a preventive measure.

Haylley: And pre events as well. If someone has a sports event, like a marathon, you know, we've got the London Marathon here. And it'd be amazing to get some of those runners running in the pool before they started running on land or even doing some of their training in the pool and running before. So there's a lot that I think could marry up very well. But I would hope that people take a bit more respect for the water. But yeah, we're still in that battle.

Jenni Lynn: I think you've already touched on it as we've been talking about A.R.E.A., but there's a focus of three different pillars, the Aqua Stretch, the Aquanatal and Aqua Therapy, are those like the three pillars right now of A.R.E.A.?

Lynda: Yeah.

Haylley: So right now we have them. We also have an introduction to aquatic therapy is going to be our next big release. But what we also have been doing over lockdown is I have been rewriting, and I mean, I have put so much time into the Aquanatal course to make it an online course. So it's going to becoming an online program. And the follow on from there would be all the pelvic care work. And Lynda's doing a similar setup with the introduction to aquatic therapy. And there will be add-ons that will come on from that as well. So we've been busy writing up this education, preparing it ready for this big launch.

Jenni Lynn: You're being productive during this time. That's for sure. I know from the interview that you and I had, I was beyond impressed to hear all this stuff. Because I know we talked for quite a while and all the stuff that you've been working on. But it was fantastic. Well, and I've told other instructors this because I've had, you know, a lot of different mothers in my pool, and I've trained women, both prior to pregnancy, during pregnancy and after. And, you know, there's only so much research out there, but I, as you know, come to you and I ask you these questions and I'm like, okay, before I work with this woman, these, these are the things, what should I do? And you just have, I mean, your messages back are just like a chapter. It's amazing, because then I sit there and I'll print that out and actually like go through and read it and highlight it and like I can help so many different women from that, you know, from that information. It's not just specific on one person, you're like, Okay, if it's this scenario, approach it here. If it's this scenario, and I'm like, I cannot wait to take this online program. It's gonna be awesome.

Haylley: Yeah, no, I'm really excited about it and it's going to be separated into two. You're going to have a prenatal section and a postnatal section. So they're two separate courses and and while I don't want to give too much away, but there is so much content there that Lynda still hasn't finished giving it the okay.

Lynda: I'm nearly there.

Haylley: Yeah. So and to be honest, I'm still adding little tidbits here and there and like I want it to be ready. So I want it to be ready. But I'm also excited about what I'm able to deliver afterwards. So I believe in the fact that the pelvic floor is a really under estimated muscle. I also look at the pelvis and how the pelvis is. So I actually have a add on after you've done the pre and post natal or if you wanted to just do the the pelvis work separately and I've got a workshop that's called Pool Floor to Pelvic Floor. And it connects the fact that you know one in three women - and I can't remember the statistics off the top of my head right now, but men, I want to say one in 10, but don't quote me on that, - I think it's one in three women and one in ten men suffer with pelvic floor dysfunction in one way or another. And pelvic floor dysfunction doesn't just mean the pelvic floor. There is so much other stuff going on. And the chain that responds throughout the entire body can affect even all the way up to the jaw. So I want to be able to help these people who, in the water, it's not noticeable, whether they're having a little, you know, sneezy peasy, type moment...

But, they go, and they go out the water. And they go, and, you know, go meet up with their friends, and they laugh too much. And that's when they have a little accident. But the work that I do with my classes, my therapy classes, my general classes, and I do specific pelvic floor sections within my class as well. Not all the time. But if I'm, especially if I'm doing my therapy class, I do every single session, my therapy class have it. And one of my ladies said to me, I remember it been like two months, she said to me, I want you to know that I went on a trampoline. And I done, I don't know, four minutes but I was out of breath, so I came off. And I said, if you can do four minutes because we've been working on your pelvic floor, I am absolutely thrilled. Next week, you can do five minutes. But you know that's an amazing improvement. And yeah, the the kind of, I'm not here to, you know, make people do it. I want to help people to understand why they should do it. And because when people understand why they should do it, they're more likely to do it. If you just go and get told by the nurse, Oh, you've got to do your pelvic floor muscles. They're like, I did a bit. And then I forgot, like the amount of postnatal mums that say, yeah, I'm too busy to do my pelvic floor work. I'm like, No, this is really important. This is really important. Let me explain to you why this is really important. And then the aging process and the menopause process of the body, you know, that that then has an effect on that older generation. And that older generation is the majority of our daytime aqua classes.

So, you know, if you could take into account that the body starts aging, the aging process, and then you've got the menopause and the way that the aging process then obviously is intensified, they come to the classes in the daytime, because that's when they're, you know, more suited suited to come, whether it be the 55 plus class or whatever. And they are ideal to help support them and stop them from becoming those incontinence issues or anything like that. And I hate the fact that we have all these adverts for special underwear for a lady like we've got 10 ladies, and we've got was Always and they've now got them so much so, but they've got they you know, they make them pretty with little flowers on them. And they say, Oh, I feel so comfortable in my sexy tenor ladies, but you know, they're not sexy, and they're not sexy, and they shouldn't be normalized, because we need to work on strengthening and helping and getting this function, you know, to work rather than just relying on a pad in your panties.

Jenni Lynn: I'm so happy you said that. Because I've been watching these commercials for these new lines of underwear and undergarments for women. And although I understand there's probably special circumstances or a surgery or something in which maybe that's necessary for a brief period of time, but to that as a quote unquote, band-aid for something that you could easily and very quickly, you know, take care of with exercises and understanding your body and understanding the pelvic floor. Like they're very easy fixes, but it's just this mentality of I just don't have the time.

Haylley: Yeah, yeah, I mean, those companies are making millions. And I understand when you get to an age of maybe, you know, 90, where the body actually can't function and the body is actually switching off. Because that's what I suppose in the older days used to happen. It just, you know, it was more for that. But now they've made them sexy, and they've advertised for the postnatal lady and they're becoming more normal and I would rather than get help. So I've spoken about it before, but I had abdominal surgery, July last year, and I woke up from surgery, I know what I'm doing. So I woke up from surgery and within an hour, I was doing breathing exercises to start waking up and start getting those muscles in my abdominals to start switching on again. And I'm still with stitches and all the rest of it. But I got given a leaflet. Now, obviously, we've got the NHS in England, and it's amazing, the NHS is amazing. And we have the heroes to thank massively during this COVID scenario, but the leaflet that I got given from the NHS, about how to work my abdominals and my pelvic floor was so poor in what its information gave. It gave a few really key and up to date points. But it gave very small amount of exercise, you know, a really small amount of exercises to do. And I thought, how many women you know, get given that on a day to day basis, having surgery whether it be abdominal, whether it be have a baby, but it's the same thing, because it's the gynecological leaflet, okay, so whether you've had a baby, whether you've had a C section, and etc, etc. And the information on there is so small and poor. So that's, that's what they get. They get that. What what woman who's just had a baby is going to sit there, read it, and then go, Oh, yeah, my date on day to day basis, I need to do that. Not very many.

Jenni Lynn: Yeah. Not at all.

AJ: No, it comes with the education, as you said, and kind of spreading that awareness, but also then working with the medical industry, perhaps, you know, putting together your own pamphlet that can go home with people post surgery. Some of the other issues that you guys deal with regularly. And Lynda, this might be a question for you. Issues in the tissues. Like lockdown bodies? Why don't we talk a little bit about that.

Lynda: So yeah, I've become absolutely obsessed, I think is the right word, with fascia. And the connective tissue, especially since sort of doing the Aqua Stretch stuff and everything. And so we've been on lots of courses, both Haylley and I independently and together because of course, as you've realized that everything I do, poor Haylley gets dragged along and involved as well. So it's like, this is what you need to learn, this is what you need to know, we need to understand about fascia. So when when we went back into the pool, it was sort of like feeling these people, and their hips were locked, they just weren't moving, they needed freeing up so much. And you could just sort of, I don't know, the hip flexors were locked. They needed to move, they needed to be able to move around, and it's just getting them to get in that water and be like seaweed really. Allow the bodies to sort of unravel from that immobility, or just walking. We're moving beings...

Haylley: And melt, melting into the water is a really nice image.

Lynda: Yeah.

Haylley: Allowing the body to just be relaxed.

Lynda: I mean, this is one of the things I always say to my clients is when you go and you get a tin out of the cupboard, you know, most of the food is stored on the top cupboards not on the ones underneath the sink, they're generally in the top cabinets above the sinks. And you go to get a tin out but you don't stand absolutely in front of that cupboard, put both hands around that tin, bring it down in both hands and squat beautifully while you place it on the worktop. That doesn't happen. You know, what we do is we reach up with one hand, you know, the other leg lifts off the floor. So we go in this complete diagonal. And this goes along with the anatomy trains and the anatomy lines and the fascia lines of the connectivity throughout the whole body. So I just found that sort of with people that they came back from lockdown, they've been watching so much telly. I mean even myself, you know before lockdown, I wouldn't get home from work till about nine o'clock at night. But I found that we were sitting down for dinner at six o'clock in the evening. And then basically didn't get up until bedtime. You know, we then sort of like have our dinners and then go and sit on the sofa. Watch the telly. So we were just in that seated position in that sort of locked down, locked up body position. When you get to the pool, you take away that gravity that we've all been sort of oppressed by, especially as water people. And sort of, you know, everything just was rigid, everything was tight, everything was stiff, no matter how much people had been sort of moving on the land, unless they were sort of imitating worm or something like that. They wouldn't have been sort of moving around in those sort of same planes and all those different movements that the human body needs. And that's the way that we work. We're basically a symmetrical in movement. So I think, you know, lockdown bodies was a good way to describe. Everybody was tight. Everybody needed that loosening, everybody needed that...I suppose that feeling of freedom, because we've all felt like a form of prison.

Haylley: As I say, it's the COVID coaster, where everyone's talking about it being a bit of a roller coaster during COVID. One day happy and you're making cupcakes and gardening and the next day, you just want to cry and sit on the sofa and do nothing.

Jenni Lynn: Mm hmm.

AJ: That's true. I mean, we've all been locked down. And it's no wonder that our bodies are reacting to it.

Jenni Lynn: We're locked down and it's locked up.

AJ: Yeah. Well, on that note, I guess what would be a piece of advice for each of you would give to someone who's listening to this right now, maybe, get up and walk around? But what would be a piece of advice that you'd give to someone who may not be able to come to one of your classes per se, but something they can do at home right now to improve themselves?

Lynda: I think for me, it would be, you know, think and be like a child, it's definitely move around. But you know, observe how young children move. Even if you stand in your sitting room and swing your arms around, around your waist, you know, from sort of side to side, like your propeller or something and, you know, make windmills and things and sort of pretend you're using a hula hoop. It's move, you know, ankle circles. We're rotational beings, we need that rotational movement.

Haylley: I always say to my customers as well, you want your ankles to be as flexible as when you were 14. So you want that movement, you want that freedom within those joints, because when those joints start stiffening up, that's when the body aches more in other areas. And the most, you know, freeing movement, as Lynda was saying is, you know, children. They just let themselves go.

Lynda: Mm hmm. Yeah. And scream.

Haylley: Yes.

Jenni Lynn: I love it. I love it. It's so funny you said that, Lynda, because my vocal coach or I should say our vocal coach, Chris and I both go to a vocal teacher. And she talks about being like a child with your voice. When you hear children, they are just making different sounds and just the freedom of not just, you know, the voice, but the movement in their bodies and the limberness and there's a reason it's called Child's Pose in yoga. And things like that. You know, it's a good comparison to make for the body.

Lynda: Absolutely.

Haylley: Yeah. I think a lot of people as well as they age, they kind of go a bit more, I don't want to say stiff in their actions, but they don't allow themselves to just let go.

Jenni Lynn: Mm hmm.

Lynda: It's that responsible grown business, isn't it?

Haylley: Yeah.

Lynda: We've become that responsible grown up and, you know, act your age type thing.

AJ: Yeah, well, sure. I remember being told my grandmother used to say to me all the time, sit up straight, and stop fidgeting. Stop moving, just sit still, sit still. And then it's like, okay, I did that and now my legs, my back. Everything is messed up. Thanks Grandma!

Haylley: Yeah.

Lynda: Well, just thinking about what Haylley said actually about the mobility in the ankles. I mean, it's so true about that as well. Because if your ankles, if you can't, sort of like flex and extend the ankle, especially when you're walking, then the movement...because we have a set pattern on the set size step that we take, habitually, you know, once we become an adult, it doesn't really change. That length of stride. But if your ankles become locked and they become less mobile, you'll still want to take that same size step but what will happen is the pelvis will tilt to allow that step to happen if it won't happen in the ankles. And of course, if your pelvis tills, then you're going to be sort of compressing the lumbar spine, and then you're going to end up with lower back pain. So it's going to just sort of ricochet right the way up the body. So the more we can stay mobile, the more we can keep those joints sort of like fluid and moving the better chance we have of having a sort of more pain free older age.

Haylley: Yes.

Jenni Lynn: See, this is why I just I love getting this, almost like just this confirmation of the things that I've been doing with some of my aging, or as I call them, my active agers. Because I really, for myself, as a trainer, I think I've just started to do from the ground up, starting with the feet, the ankles, the knees, the hips, the pelvis, you know, going up the chain, because I've learned from the extensive foot problems I have, I have been on both sides, and it very much compromises the way I want to shift my weight. But I also know exactly like, I don't know what the way Lynda knows it, but or the way that Haylley knows it. But I understand that, you know, if my foot can't move a certain way, then that makes my ankle move a different way, then my knee shifts, then the hip and the pelvis and this whole...And you can feel it if you pay attention. You can

Haylley: Guess what after all that, that affects your pelvis, which also affects your pelvic floor.

Jenni Lynn: See, we have to stay on this, we have to stay on the mobility and keeping ourselves moving. Oh my gosh. From this point, I guess I know there's so much going on and you're building so much amazing content, where do each of you I guess, and collectively see yourself taking your career within aquatic fitness? It sounds like it's just forever and you know, this is a lifetime of a commitment.

Lynda: It is, actually. It is definitely for me. I want to leave a legacy, My father was a scientist as well. So I've come from that sort of background, and I am a firm believer that you can't take it with you. You know, what is the point of me doing all this education, learning all this stuff, if I've got nobody to leave it to? So you know, Haylley will get it and you know, the courses and everything like that. So for me personally, it's to leave everything in a good situation, that future generations, future instructors can learn and can sort of have a good sort of baseline of where they want to take their careers as well. Because if I just if I take it in the box with me, then it's it's been a waste. So I think that's my thing.

Jenni Lynn: I think you've already done a pretty good job. You have definitely already, not that you've left or anything but you have left a legacy is because you've built and created and done so much. And you haven't stopped.

Haylley: I was going to say, she only just started really.

Jenni Lynn: Exactly, exactly. It's amazing.

Lynda: I cannot wait. The PhD thing is very exciting. I'm so, so excited on all of that.

Haylley: Guess who's gonna be the dummy?

Lynda: Well, I wouldn't call you a dummy. But you know, call yourself what you like. We've already done some of that, unfortunately, with just in the beginning of some really, really exciting research on fascia. Hopefully, will be launched next year. I'll make sure that, you know, Haylley lets you guys know about it. And Haylley and I were in the pool, and sort of scanning and looking at the body and everything. And what we discovered was very, very exciting. That's really a nasty tease, isn't it?

Haylley: So yeah, so Lynda has this scanner, and we're scanning what's going on in the body whilst I'm in the swimming pool. And one of the things that happened was that she basically wrote all over my body and my legs in pen, but first of all the pen didn't work. So then she got a sharpie. So I had permanent marker on my legs, like these big squares all over my legs, thinking oh my god, how am I going to explain this one to my husband? Because obviously I just leave him going I'm going to meet my mom at the pole and he's like, Okay, see you later. And then I'm come back with all these squares all over my legs. But because of where we have to position them and the way that we have to do it, the water thank god rubbed the lines off.

Jenni Lynn: That's like an artwork piece right there.

Haylley: Right squares everywhere. Yeah.

Lynda: You're always getting drawn on actually cuz when you came to university with me, you got drawn all over as well, didn't you

Haylley: Yeah.

Jenni Lynn: I mean, guinea pig.

Haylley: Honestly.

AJ: That's so cute.

Lynda: Everybody needs a pet.

AJ: Well, as we're rounding down here I would love to know because you guys are such great educators, and motivators, what advice you would give to people, either instructors who are currently teaching or people who want to become instructors, maybe even a tutor for A.R.E.A. What advice would you give to them?

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